Use two passages from pages 112-122, at least one of which you didn't annotate, to do the following:
-Help answer the questions on the board:
Why don't we/you fully connect to others?
What are the dangers?
Are these two the same?
-Come up with two more questions (and start exploring those).
Mr. Slater
Dr. Morgan LeCorgne
ReplyDelete"But he could not bring himself to say he loved her; not in so many words...she understood without his speaking"(118).
"He had not said 'I love you'; but he held her hand. Happiness is this, is this, he thought"(119).
While many may believe that we do not connect with others these two quotes point to the contrary. Richard and Clarissa Dalloway have reached a point of such strong connection that words are not necessary to express their feelings for each other. Early in the book we see the same thing when Clarissa and Peter Walsh interact for the first time, and it is more a battle of thought than of words. Even though Richard and Clarissa have this strong connection Richard still fears rejection or being judged by using words to express how he feels. He cannot bring himself to say that he loves Clarissa and relys soley on the idea that she is able to understand without words. It ties in with the second quotes where he is holding Clarissa's hand and states that that is true happiness, physical contact. Is what we are striving for this idea of physical acceptance? It reminds me of Freud in that everything we do revolves around sex. Richard says that holding her hand is true happiness. It symbolizes acceptance and a connection. So maybe a physical relationship is the ultimate goal. Or is a physical connection a way to avoid an emotional connection? That is the more physical we are the less connection we have. This seems less likely than the other idea, because Clarissa and Richard show that the have a strong connection because of the first quote.
Richard wants to connect to Clarissa. he is bringing her flowers. As they pass they share some sort of moment; richard identifies this as a spark. as the reader we can see inside Clarissa's mind and understand that she has more of a spark for Peter Walsh.I think that she has a connecion to both of them in different ways. Richard represents the life she wants to have, her ideals. I think that the connection that she has with Peter is somehow more real or personal. Although Richard and Clarissa did not speak as they passed, Richard picked up on a connection. I wonder if he made it up. Can you choose the people you connect with or does the spark just happen?
ReplyDeleteThose questions lead me to Jays quote. I think this quote describes the inner thoughts of a connection. I dont know how anyone would describe it. I dont understand this quote because I cant figure out what shes talking about. I think she recognizes that she as a connection to both Richard and Peter but i dont think she truly understands it. I think if she had to choose between them she would choose peter. I think their connection is different but I dont know why, I dont think she knows why and I really dont think she chose it to be that way. I dont think she had any control over her connection to Peter.
KENNY
ReplyDeletemiddle/bottom 115
These two are clearly not connecting. "Partly one's lazy; partly one's shy. And Clarissa - it was difficult to think of her." Then the passage goes on to state how he has been stuck like this all this life. Their halos are simply comprised differently because they have different life stories. They have seen different things that effected their halos.
Bottom of 119.
There's a disconnect between the two when he gives her the flowers he bought for her. Goes on to say, "And there is a dignity in people; a solitude; even between husband and wife a gulf; and that one must respect, thought Clarissa, watching him open the door; for one would not part with it oneself"
Clarissa realizes the "dignity" in the individual and in marriage, which means she sees marriage as something that creates a connection between two people. As she sees Peter open the door, she has this realization. Metaphorically, he's exiting the Clarissa house, disconnecting himself from her.
So, clarissa thinks marriage is a tool that can connect two people, and she now sees the benefit of that because of her lack of connectivity with this gentleman.
Shay: Sometimes we cannot express ourselves in words. We must find something else like an object to help us. Richard uses flowers. “He was holding out flower-roses, red and white rises. (But he could not bring himself to say he loved her: not in so many words.)…She understood; she understood without his speaking.” Clarissa understands and appreciated Richard’s gift, but does Richard? Richard is thinking about what he will give to Clarissa when he comes home. "But he wanted to come in holding something. Flowers? Yes, flowers, since he did not trust his taste in gold; any number of flowers, roses, orchids, to celebrate what was, reckoning things as you will, an event". We cannot truly connect with people until we know ourselves. How can we expect someone else to understand an expression of our self when we don't even understand what we're trying to express? Richard knows that he wants to come in holding something, but why? What does he want this something to convey? He doesn't trust his taste in gold and he cannot decide which flowers to get. If he is not confident in the sentiment behind this gift, how is Clarissa supposed to receive the gesture? When we use things and props to express ourselves, is it a true expression, or our we hiding behind these objects to avoid facing our real emotions?
ReplyDeleteMason
ReplyDeleteWhen I first take a look at page 117, I see how Richard Dalloway was much inspired by the lunch. The simple mention of Peter Walsh made him immediately appreciate Clarissa. He says “he liked continuity; and the sense of handing on the traditions of the past. It was a great age in which to have lived. Indeed, his own life was a miracle; let him make no mistake about it; here he was, in the prime of life, walking to his house in Westminster to tell Clarissa that he loved her. Happiness is this, he thought” (117). How does he connect with Clarissa? To me, it seems like it is a one way connection that is strictly mental. There isn’t this sort of grand connection between the two back and forth, but rather Richard believing there is. But what makes this interesting is that his false sense of connecting might not be that bad. This superficial connection, as it seems, is positively unique. Richard clearly believes in its validity and seems to be sold on that idea. It doesn’t matter that it’s not a genuine, two-way connection. The whole event is great because he genuinely believes that he’s happy. He believes that he has it made and this small case of self-belief is special. But we must look at why he has this immediate revelation. Woolf writes, “He had, once upon a time, been jealous of Peter Walsh; jealous of him and Clarissa” (116-117). I think because we live so much in the past that Richard does that here. Richard’s mind was previously set on the fact that Clarissa loves Peter and vice versa and now he feels like he has finally won. So he creates the conception that when you win, you must feel happy, “Happiness is this, he thought.”
Brian:
ReplyDeleteOne reason that people might not connect is a misunderstanding. Also, if one person does not fully open, it may lead to another person to stay closed. Richard Dalloway experiences this with Clarissa when, “he was holding the flowers – roses, red and white roses. (But he could not bring himself to say he loved her; not in so many words.) But how lovely, she said, taking his flowers. She understood; she understood without him speaking; his Clarissa” (118). He had not fully explained himself. To him, the flowers were his way of communicating to Clarissa that he loves her, but to Clarissa, the flowers may just be a nice gesture. The problem is the subjective nature of actions. Then Richard thinks that he has correctly expressed himself, but Clarissa may have never understood his true intentions. This is a danger because now they have reached a disconnection of emotions. He may think that they have connected, but she may not feel the same. Another way in which people may not connect is though one’s own decision. Clarissa chooses not to connect because “there was dignity in people; a solitude; even between husband and wife a gulf; and that one must respect, though Clarissa, watching him open the door; for one would not part with it oneself, or take it, against his will, from one’s husband, without losing one’s independence, one’s self-respect – something, after all, priceless. She believes that there has to be some space between them, and this leads to a disconnection. If she does connect, she believes, she will lose her own free will. She will become an extension of Richard. She prizes her independence and self-respect more than her relationship with Richard. Looking at these two passages, it can be concluded that the dangers and the reasons that we don’t connect may be the same.
quote ends after priceless and is page 120
DeleteSam
ReplyDelete"Here he was walking across London to say to Clarissa in so many words that he loved her. Which one never does say, he thought. Partly one's lazy; partly one's shy" (115).
"And there is a dignity in people; a solitude; even between a husband and wife a gulf; and that one must respect, thought Clarissa, watching him open the door; for one would not part with oneself, or take it, against his will, from one's husband, without losing one's independence, one's self-respect - something, after all, priceless" (120).
Telling someone that you love them is inherently dangerous. When you tell someone that (and you really mean it), you have to open up yourself, there is no other choice. Doing this leaves you in a vulnerable spot in which people can take advantage of you and hurt you quite easily. It is interesting that even after one has told their husband or wife that they love them (presumably) and that you have presumably achieved the closest possible union of two individuals, that there is still a gulf there that one must respect. Why must they respect that gulf? I guess because even though you both are very close to each other, each of you is still an individual with your own thoughts and feelings that are separate from the thoughts and feelings of your spouse. Also, what happens if the gulf is not respected and you become exceptionally close and then get divorced? I assume that it is like losing half of yourself because by not respecting that gulf, you have allowed your personalities, thoughts, feelings, etc. to become so intertwined that you simply cannot function as individual. What then? Does suicide become an option?
Alex
ReplyDelete“And they went further and further from her, being attached to her by a thin thread (since they had lunched with her) which would stretch and stretch, get thinner and thinner as they walked across London; as if one’s friends were attached to one’s body, after lunching with them, by a thin thread, which (as she dozed there) became hazy with the sound of bells, striking the hour or ringing to service, as a single spider’s thread is blotted with rain drops, and, burdened, sags down” (112). This is an interesting description of the feeling of being connected with people after socializing with them, and it is one which I cannot say is foreign to me. I have felt something of this nature before, but the idea that the thread merely stretches is an idea that I cannot agree with because I have felt the cords break. It is possible that Mrs. Dalloway has not felt the cords break because her relationship with these people has not changed, but the threads obviously weaken as they move through the city. Is it possible that she really does feel the breaking of the cords, but merely mistakes the feeling for the stretching of the cords, or is it possible that the cords are merely her own perception of the relationship and not actual bonds?
Nick
ReplyDelete“And she felt quite continuously a sense of their existence; and she felt what a waste; and she felt what a pity; and she felt if only they could be brought together; so she did it. And it was an offering; to combine, to create; but to whom?” This quote immediately reminded me of the graph on the board with depression and schizophrenia. People with schizophrenia fail to understand their existence separate from the outside world, but Clarissa is the opposite. She felt a continuous sense of her existence, meaning she is depressed. This is supported when she says, “and she felt what a waste” right afterwards. However, she feels that connecting will change things. Why?
"And there is a dignity in people; a solitude; even between husband and wife a gulf; and that one must respect, thought Clarissa, watching him open the door." (120)...This brought up a clear reason why humans have trouble connecting; dignity. We each have a dignity, or pride for who we are, and we want to protect that dignity or that image. In Freud terms, we want to protect this facade and we want to appear a certain way in the eyes of other people. Truly connecting jeopardizes this. We put out a part of ourselves that we wish we didn’t have and we lose some of that dignity or pride in ourselves and no one wants that. Clarissa talks about how Peter and Richard make fun of her and she wonders how she can defend herself: "Both of them criticized her very unfairly, laughed at her very unjustly, for her parties. That was it! That was it! Well, how was she going to defend herself?" (121) Here, she wonders how to defend herself because she wants to protect the image that she has pride in. She doesn't want Peter and Richard to laugh at her because of her parties; she wants to be respected and appreciated for her parties. This gap between her wish and their actual response is what creates hesitation in connection between humans. We are afraid that putting ourselves out there will reveal who we really are, not who we pretend to be. By connecting, we put our pride and dignity on the line, and losing that pride means more to some than it does to others.
Pg 112
ReplyDeleteThis passage describes how a connection is made and how common every day socializing is how you make the connection. The metaphor is comparing thread to the connection of people. We do not fully connect with others because because after the socializing is over we slowly disconnect from each other the further away we get. The thread becomes more thin until we go to sleep it snaps. After socializing we go through our whole day with the thread becoming more thin till we go to sleep and it snaps. When going to sleep it is like disconnecting from the world because you are dreaming. When you disconnect from the world you cut the thread that links you to it until you reconnect. The use of thread as the metaphor only expresses the dangers of connecting because a piece o thread is easy to cut or break off. So the connection between to people is fragile and weak can easily be broken. This would be why people fear connecting because of how easy it is to disconnect.
pg 116
This passage describes the complexities of trying to connect with a person. It uses sparks as a metaphor for a connection. To create sparks one must rub to things together to create friction. Two people are connected by rubbing against each other which could be sexual a sexual implication. Dying couples do like to describe the early years of their relationship of having some kind of spark which represents their shared love with one another. A spark will come at an instant which implies that a connection only can exist for that short time period or represents that the connection of two people can go away at an instant. So as hard as it is to create a relationship with someone it is easier to lose it. Peter Walsh in this Passage is unable to describe his love for Clarissa in words. This makes it difficult to connect with a person that our feelings are limited to words.
Is it understanding of one another that creates the Connection between two people? It seems relationships are developed from people understanding one another and relating to each other.
Is it the use of words that make a relationship worse? Relationships seems to get destroyed because of a lack of understand of the other feelings or some sort of miss communication maybe it is the limitations of words that slowly destroys our connection destroys the spark cause words can be repetitive.
Jay
ReplyDeleteUnderstanding why we do not connect to others, like we see our selves doing can be explained by two quotes in particular in Mrs. Dalloway. We do not connect to others due to the fact that we, in a way, do not want to become fully exposed to them, and put all our trust in them. By not putting all of our faith into them, we avoid the pain and suffering that can come when that person has a low moment and defies our trust we put into them, by opening up. This idea can be seen in the quote from Mrs. Dalloway where she states,"But he could not bring himself to say he loved her." This is a prime example of where someone is having feelings about another, but is apprehensive about fully opening up to them. By not letting himself say that "I love you" he doesnt fully open up and put all of her trust into her. This same kind of idea is present in another quote, where Dalloway states "And she felt quite continuously a sense of their existence; and she felt what a waste; and she felt what a pity; and she felt if only they could be brought together; so she did it. And it was an offering; to combine, to create; but to whom?" The same kind of idea is present, in the sense that she is apprehensiveness about trusting someone but a little bit different. Off the bat, it is obvious that she is trying to create some kind of connection, but she is stuck where she does not know who to connect to. She is feeling the urge to open up to someone, but she cannot take that leap of faith where she can fully open up and connect; instead of not wanting to open up, she just dosnt know to whom she should. She is still dealing with the problems that everyone does, but as opposed to not wanting to open up, she does not know to whom she should. She understands that risk that she would be taking by opening up, but her issue, comes that she does not know as to whom. So the question, arises, what is the kind of person that we can open up to? Is there a ceratain type of people that it is in terms easier to open up to, or is just any old guy walking on the street. Could it be your closet friend, or is there some new a closer level of connection?